"While naturism represents non-sexual nudity, body acceptance, self-respect and..."
Good take. Naked is not inherently sexual, but humans are a very sexual species. Especially younger humans have raging hormones that focus much of their interest and activities on sexuality. Body acceptance and respect has to allow self-respect for our bodies, and respect for others as biological machines that are never asexual. All the anti-sex rhetoric is disrespectful, and has served to drive young men and women away from organized nudism.
Respect for Nature, social equality, and inclusiveity have become political advocacy that often are used to mean something other than what they appear to mean. I think I understand what you mean, but I don't think nudism want's to take controversial political sides.
We all favor health and well being, but how to be more healthy has been fraught with corporate mass marketing nonsense until many people believe things opposite of healthy. For example, sunshine and fresh air are always healthy, but frequently advocated toxic chemical "sun blocker" products are unhealthy.
Likewise I think we all want environmental sustainability too, but again that very concept has been politically misused until many are very confused about what it means and how to achieve sustainability. Certainly the environmental damage done by manufacture, maintenance, and disposal of millions of tons of useless clothing is generally opposed by most naturists. And, massive bird killing wind turbines are blights on the environment from manufacture to disposal.
We are left with simplicity and freedom along with body respect as the heart of naturism. I think that has to include respect of our biological body processes of eating, peeing, pooing, breeding, and feeling. We can't be respecting ourselves or our kind while pretending that our biology is shameful or disrespectful. Just my perspective.
I would argue that the folks that are posting anonymous photos of their genitals are using the nudist title as a cop out to justify their exhibitionism. They truly are not nudists nor would they qualify as naturists. The title of nudist makes them seem semi-acceptable whereas being an exhibitionist is a misdemeanor (or depending on the specific circumstances and location, felony) waiting to happen. These people are the reason that all of the Los Angeles Nudist/Naturist social groups are slowly dying. When founded, all were non-sexual social clubs. However, as boards changed, discrete areas were added to events, drawing more and more... I'll just say it. PERVERTS, who were only there to ogle and have sex. Event hosts stopped hosting, as they wanted nothing to do with the detritus involved with these changes, and now the amount of events annually has dwindled, and at least one group appears to have dissolved completely. Previously, I had attended movie nights, card or board game nights, potlucks, art gatherings, gardening training and shows, hikes (some of which involved trail cleanup), hot springs visits (again involving trail cleanup), pool parties, camps (with trail cleanup and tree planting), and the events were exactly that, events, that just happened to have nude participants. Now the pendulum has swung the opposite way, and the events revolve solely around getting naked and are less social, and could barely be called events.
Yes agree it has a lot in common with nude meditation the purpose isn’t to focus on being naked it is to shed clothing to feel more in tune to a spiritual state void of negative energy or hindrance to complete openness to cosmic energy. After all your eyes are closed so you really can’t focus on being naked. Or others being naked. So you do things and you just happen to be naked. Love it good job!
I’ve been working on a sketch on the “definition of naturism” as it’s usage has been tossed around in a lot of different ways. I hope to get that put together in time to contribute to your reflections on the piece by Kevin and Corin. If it’s confusing for the confirmed naturist, it has to be even more so for the everyday textile!
I’d argue that there are many who enjoy nudity at home, without much of a social aspect. Perhaps you have uncovered the difference between nudism and naturism. Perhaps I’m wrong in my interpretation but many of the naturists I talk to pay attention to the other stuff.
I've noticed over the past 25 or so years there's been a noticeable increase in the portion of the population that refuses to accept any information that doesn't fit their pre-existing narrative regardless of topic. To me it's Semmelweis Reflex mixed with other phenomena. Perhaps it might be helpful to look at other aspects of society. Are there other movements or ideas that have made any headway with this problem? If so, might we be able to learn something from them?
A lot of interesting comments both positive and negative about nudity. There is some value to them all. That said we simply as a couple try to incorporate nudity into all phases of our lives as best we can and disregard the detractors along the way.
We are always going to have a few who will try to spoil it for the rest of us. For us, our nudity is our true honesty. It is who and what we are. If it is sexual in the hearts and minds of others, there is little we can do to stop it. We simply cannot let it stop us.
Ournaturistlife is right that "we focus on nudity so much because it's the one thing on the list that makes us different". Naturists generally appreciate many or most of the other attitudes associated with naturism. Still, nudity is a sine qua non of naturism.
If naturism embraces all those other things, but NOT nonsexual nudity, then what's the point? Nonsexual nudity is what makes naturism MORE than just a group of admirable values. The nudity could be merely alone in the privacy of one's home - occasionally with family, extended family, and friends - or as much as being naked whenever possible.
Many people will never consider naturist nudity a good thing. But for others, naturists should emphasize that their nudity is nonsexual, important to them, and a good thing in appropriate circumstances. Including the other estimable attitudes along with nonsexual nudity helps open-minded people see naturism more favorably, so they'll be more likely to understand and respect naturists' disposition to be free of clothing - or even try it themselves.
Im not suggesting we give up nudity, it is our core identity. I am simply curious that it seems to be the only thing we promote rather than other aspects of the philosophy. I fear that by focusing solely on the nudity, we are giving people the opportunity to post dick pics and call it naturism.
I always enjoy reading what you write and generally agree, but I have to admit that I find this doesn’t seem to make much sense. Let me try to explain my perspective. I think it is safe to say that most people already subscribe to all the pillars you mention, with the possible exception of body positivity, which I believe is so intertwined with naturism as to be inseparable from it. If they were interested in joining a group of like-minded people why would we want them to join us? I think the obvious answer is “to get naked”. That is the only thing take differentiates us from other groups that might interest them.
Ever since I got involved in social nudism many years ago I’ve noted how many discussions we have about exactly what a naturist or nudist is, and what we can do to make public nudity more acceptable to society thus attracting more people. Then we do our best to hide our clothe-free lifestyle preference from our family, friends, neighbors, colleagues, and everyone else except our naturist friends, as if we were ashamed or embarrassed about it.
Who would want to join a group like that, regardless of what other pillars they subscribe to?
I had been thinking about the many recent criticisms of naturist content where people complain about the frequency of faceless penis images. While nudity is the thing that differentiates us from many groups, it is not the only thing we are about. I am not suggesting that we hide our nudity, simply that we also mention other aspects of the philosophy.
A lot of people gravitate to naturism for the wrong reasons, probably because the public knows so little about it. So there are creeps that shouldn’t be here. But my point is that no one is one-dimensional. We all have many interests and facets to our lives. I happen to the treasurer of a British car club. Obviously I have an interest in British cars. (I’ve had a 2005 Lotus Elise since 2006.) We try to attract members to the club by describing who we are and what differentiates us from other organizations. We never felt the need to explain that we also have other characteristics or interests. That we may share other similarities isn’t really relevant.
I think that anyone who might have any interest in naturism won’t care about your pillars, they’re going to want to know about all aspects of getting naked among a group of strangers.
IMHO. and I would start by saying there could be a master's thesis written on this topic and a quip from me does not at all cover any of the depth that it should. I have been stewing here for the correct metaphor. "Birding" It involves getting out in open spaces, making lists, developing comradery, promotes conservation, exercise, making lists etc.....but using the analogy here, is trying to downplay the nudity in naturism is akin to taking the actual looking at birds out of birding.....and truth be told, I have been on multi-thousand dollar birding expeditions where I met people that at least uncommonly actually looked at the target bird, kind of odd. Can a birder never actually look at birds? The question can then morph to, is an event, a location, a person, "Naturist" if no one is physically naked? If no one is naked, then, would it be called something else? My parents had a buddy who at his bar in his basement had a sign that stated "This bar is Clothing-Optional"....yet no one was ever naked there and I doubt the owner was ever naked anywhere. We had the same joke at my office, "clothing optional fridays." I was at a resort in Panama that way......I was trying to bird naked so I did NOT care, and saw 80 species, but I was the only naked person there when my wife decided since no one else was "naked" she was not going to be. I pose the question then, was she still a "naturist"? Like I said, all questions that require dissertations, involve some pet peeves of mine (mostly clothing optional locales) and are beyond my paygrade
I'm not advocating giving up nudity at all. I'm simply saying that when there are so many aspects to being a naturist, why does everyone focus on the nudity? If you were trying to gain acceptance, or at least tolerance, in a wider society, perhaps start with some of the other pillars of the philosophy. Yes, it is about the nudity, but by putting that aspect up first, do we close ourselves off too quickly when promoting naturism.
Again back to trying to not emphasize the bird watching out of birding, if it is the key tenant, you either appear afraid to admit it, or misrepresenting what it truly is, and I think there would be too much of a potential for those you are trying to get acceptance from to see this......I could see backfiring, but like I said, a very complex issue and I agree about inappropriate photos, however, I also see "naturist" FKK or textile free places with no pictures of people even implying being naked so as a consumer, I get confused.....
Ournaturistlife.com you have pointed out the importance of featuring nudity so prominently in encouraging others to investigate and enjoy naturism. I agree with your point.
I guess I'm not trying to minimise nudity as part of naturism, I just think it is the biggest hurdle to get society to accept the philosophy as a valid lifestyle choice. If we can get acceptance in the other areas, then the nudity issue becomes a smaller challenge. By putting nudity front and centre, we block so many from considering the other benefits.
I am a naturist because of the comfort and serenity that I found through spending time naked. My exploration of the other themes of naturism came after that and helped to strengthen my commitment to the philosophy. I discovered naturism because I was ok with the nudity.
I wonder how many people, or allies, can't get past the nudity barrier and don't even consider the broader themes.
Nudity is the core tenet of naturism, but if that's all we keep banging on about, I fear that naturism will continue to struggle to gain acceptance, or even just tolerance.
I deeply appreciate your explanation about the distinctions between naturism and nudism. I learned a lot in your article. Thank you. I look forward to sharing this illuminating article with others who don't understand the basic tenets and values of naturism, such as egalitarianism and environmental stewardship.
I speculate that naturism's critique of the harmful impact of consumerism and fashion on the environment (inner and outer) pushes the buttons of those who are stuck in the trance of ego identification, capitalism and consumerism. Our core identity is not that. As the argument goes, we were born without clothes and we were happy (despite the crying) and beautiful in our bodies, in our own skin, the most natural and best fitting onesie EVER! ;>)
"While naturism represents non-sexual nudity, body acceptance, self-respect and..."
Good take. Naked is not inherently sexual, but humans are a very sexual species. Especially younger humans have raging hormones that focus much of their interest and activities on sexuality. Body acceptance and respect has to allow self-respect for our bodies, and respect for others as biological machines that are never asexual. All the anti-sex rhetoric is disrespectful, and has served to drive young men and women away from organized nudism.
Respect for Nature, social equality, and inclusiveity have become political advocacy that often are used to mean something other than what they appear to mean. I think I understand what you mean, but I don't think nudism want's to take controversial political sides.
We all favor health and well being, but how to be more healthy has been fraught with corporate mass marketing nonsense until many people believe things opposite of healthy. For example, sunshine and fresh air are always healthy, but frequently advocated toxic chemical "sun blocker" products are unhealthy.
Likewise I think we all want environmental sustainability too, but again that very concept has been politically misused until many are very confused about what it means and how to achieve sustainability. Certainly the environmental damage done by manufacture, maintenance, and disposal of millions of tons of useless clothing is generally opposed by most naturists. And, massive bird killing wind turbines are blights on the environment from manufacture to disposal.
We are left with simplicity and freedom along with body respect as the heart of naturism. I think that has to include respect of our biological body processes of eating, peeing, pooing, breeding, and feeling. We can't be respecting ourselves or our kind while pretending that our biology is shameful or disrespectful. Just my perspective.
You raise some interesting points, especially about the politicisation of issues.
I would argue that the folks that are posting anonymous photos of their genitals are using the nudist title as a cop out to justify their exhibitionism. They truly are not nudists nor would they qualify as naturists. The title of nudist makes them seem semi-acceptable whereas being an exhibitionist is a misdemeanor (or depending on the specific circumstances and location, felony) waiting to happen. These people are the reason that all of the Los Angeles Nudist/Naturist social groups are slowly dying. When founded, all were non-sexual social clubs. However, as boards changed, discrete areas were added to events, drawing more and more... I'll just say it. PERVERTS, who were only there to ogle and have sex. Event hosts stopped hosting, as they wanted nothing to do with the detritus involved with these changes, and now the amount of events annually has dwindled, and at least one group appears to have dissolved completely. Previously, I had attended movie nights, card or board game nights, potlucks, art gatherings, gardening training and shows, hikes (some of which involved trail cleanup), hot springs visits (again involving trail cleanup), pool parties, camps (with trail cleanup and tree planting), and the events were exactly that, events, that just happened to have nude participants. Now the pendulum has swung the opposite way, and the events revolve solely around getting naked and are less social, and could barely be called events.
Yes agree it has a lot in common with nude meditation the purpose isn’t to focus on being naked it is to shed clothing to feel more in tune to a spiritual state void of negative energy or hindrance to complete openness to cosmic energy. After all your eyes are closed so you really can’t focus on being naked. Or others being naked. So you do things and you just happen to be naked. Love it good job!
Super interesting.
I’ve been working on a sketch on the “definition of naturism” as it’s usage has been tossed around in a lot of different ways. I hope to get that put together in time to contribute to your reflections on the piece by Kevin and Corin. If it’s confusing for the confirmed naturist, it has to be even more so for the everyday textile!
Thanks for this excellent read.
Nudity is social ;not any of that oother stuff.
I’d argue that there are many who enjoy nudity at home, without much of a social aspect. Perhaps you have uncovered the difference between nudism and naturism. Perhaps I’m wrong in my interpretation but many of the naturists I talk to pay attention to the other stuff.
I've noticed over the past 25 or so years there's been a noticeable increase in the portion of the population that refuses to accept any information that doesn't fit their pre-existing narrative regardless of topic. To me it's Semmelweis Reflex mixed with other phenomena. Perhaps it might be helpful to look at other aspects of society. Are there other movements or ideas that have made any headway with this problem? If so, might we be able to learn something from them?
I had to Google Semmelweis, but your observations don't seem unreasonable.
A lot of interesting comments both positive and negative about nudity. There is some value to them all. That said we simply as a couple try to incorporate nudity into all phases of our lives as best we can and disregard the detractors along the way.
I guess that is all we can do, the best that we can.
We are always going to have a few who will try to spoil it for the rest of us. For us, our nudity is our true honesty. It is who and what we are. If it is sexual in the hearts and minds of others, there is little we can do to stop it. We simply cannot let it stop us.
T & K
Ournaturistlife is right that "we focus on nudity so much because it's the one thing on the list that makes us different". Naturists generally appreciate many or most of the other attitudes associated with naturism. Still, nudity is a sine qua non of naturism.
If naturism embraces all those other things, but NOT nonsexual nudity, then what's the point? Nonsexual nudity is what makes naturism MORE than just a group of admirable values. The nudity could be merely alone in the privacy of one's home - occasionally with family, extended family, and friends - or as much as being naked whenever possible.
Many people will never consider naturist nudity a good thing. But for others, naturists should emphasize that their nudity is nonsexual, important to them, and a good thing in appropriate circumstances. Including the other estimable attitudes along with nonsexual nudity helps open-minded people see naturism more favorably, so they'll be more likely to understand and respect naturists' disposition to be free of clothing - or even try it themselves.
Im not suggesting we give up nudity, it is our core identity. I am simply curious that it seems to be the only thing we promote rather than other aspects of the philosophy. I fear that by focusing solely on the nudity, we are giving people the opportunity to post dick pics and call it naturism.
I always enjoy reading what you write and generally agree, but I have to admit that I find this doesn’t seem to make much sense. Let me try to explain my perspective. I think it is safe to say that most people already subscribe to all the pillars you mention, with the possible exception of body positivity, which I believe is so intertwined with naturism as to be inseparable from it. If they were interested in joining a group of like-minded people why would we want them to join us? I think the obvious answer is “to get naked”. That is the only thing take differentiates us from other groups that might interest them.
Ever since I got involved in social nudism many years ago I’ve noted how many discussions we have about exactly what a naturist or nudist is, and what we can do to make public nudity more acceptable to society thus attracting more people. Then we do our best to hide our clothe-free lifestyle preference from our family, friends, neighbors, colleagues, and everyone else except our naturist friends, as if we were ashamed or embarrassed about it.
Who would want to join a group like that, regardless of what other pillars they subscribe to?
I had been thinking about the many recent criticisms of naturist content where people complain about the frequency of faceless penis images. While nudity is the thing that differentiates us from many groups, it is not the only thing we are about. I am not suggesting that we hide our nudity, simply that we also mention other aspects of the philosophy.
A lot of people gravitate to naturism for the wrong reasons, probably because the public knows so little about it. So there are creeps that shouldn’t be here. But my point is that no one is one-dimensional. We all have many interests and facets to our lives. I happen to the treasurer of a British car club. Obviously I have an interest in British cars. (I’ve had a 2005 Lotus Elise since 2006.) We try to attract members to the club by describing who we are and what differentiates us from other organizations. We never felt the need to explain that we also have other characteristics or interests. That we may share other similarities isn’t really relevant.
Fair comment.
I think that anyone who might have any interest in naturism won’t care about your pillars, they’re going to want to know about all aspects of getting naked among a group of strangers.
IMHO. and I would start by saying there could be a master's thesis written on this topic and a quip from me does not at all cover any of the depth that it should. I have been stewing here for the correct metaphor. "Birding" It involves getting out in open spaces, making lists, developing comradery, promotes conservation, exercise, making lists etc.....but using the analogy here, is trying to downplay the nudity in naturism is akin to taking the actual looking at birds out of birding.....and truth be told, I have been on multi-thousand dollar birding expeditions where I met people that at least uncommonly actually looked at the target bird, kind of odd. Can a birder never actually look at birds? The question can then morph to, is an event, a location, a person, "Naturist" if no one is physically naked? If no one is naked, then, would it be called something else? My parents had a buddy who at his bar in his basement had a sign that stated "This bar is Clothing-Optional"....yet no one was ever naked there and I doubt the owner was ever naked anywhere. We had the same joke at my office, "clothing optional fridays." I was at a resort in Panama that way......I was trying to bird naked so I did NOT care, and saw 80 species, but I was the only naked person there when my wife decided since no one else was "naked" she was not going to be. I pose the question then, was she still a "naturist"? Like I said, all questions that require dissertations, involve some pet peeves of mine (mostly clothing optional locales) and are beyond my paygrade
I'm not advocating giving up nudity at all. I'm simply saying that when there are so many aspects to being a naturist, why does everyone focus on the nudity? If you were trying to gain acceptance, or at least tolerance, in a wider society, perhaps start with some of the other pillars of the philosophy. Yes, it is about the nudity, but by putting that aspect up first, do we close ourselves off too quickly when promoting naturism.
Again back to trying to not emphasize the bird watching out of birding, if it is the key tenant, you either appear afraid to admit it, or misrepresenting what it truly is, and I think there would be too much of a potential for those you are trying to get acceptance from to see this......I could see backfiring, but like I said, a very complex issue and I agree about inappropriate photos, however, I also see "naturist" FKK or textile free places with no pictures of people even implying being naked so as a consumer, I get confused.....
Great points! Love and agree that we also need to focus on the other strengths of our community as well. If I can throw my two cents at it...
I think we focus on nudity so much because it's the one thing on the list that makes us different and so lovingly weird!
It's the one thing we seem to struggle to convince society to understand about us.
And it's the one thing from the list that if we no longer did... we would no longer be naturists!
The rest is all bonus.
Thank you for the mention!
Ournaturistlife.com you have pointed out the importance of featuring nudity so prominently in encouraging others to investigate and enjoy naturism. I agree with your point.
I guess I'm not trying to minimise nudity as part of naturism, I just think it is the biggest hurdle to get society to accept the philosophy as a valid lifestyle choice. If we can get acceptance in the other areas, then the nudity issue becomes a smaller challenge. By putting nudity front and centre, we block so many from considering the other benefits.
I am a naturist because of the comfort and serenity that I found through spending time naked. My exploration of the other themes of naturism came after that and helped to strengthen my commitment to the philosophy. I discovered naturism because I was ok with the nudity.
I wonder how many people, or allies, can't get past the nudity barrier and don't even consider the broader themes.
Nudity is the core tenet of naturism, but if that's all we keep banging on about, I fear that naturism will continue to struggle to gain acceptance, or even just tolerance.
I deeply appreciate your explanation about the distinctions between naturism and nudism. I learned a lot in your article. Thank you. I look forward to sharing this illuminating article with others who don't understand the basic tenets and values of naturism, such as egalitarianism and environmental stewardship.
I speculate that naturism's critique of the harmful impact of consumerism and fashion on the environment (inner and outer) pushes the buttons of those who are stuck in the trance of ego identification, capitalism and consumerism. Our core identity is not that. As the argument goes, we were born without clothes and we were happy (despite the crying) and beautiful in our bodies, in our own skin, the most natural and best fitting onesie EVER! ;>)
Excellent points all. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
Well said