I can totally relate to the rabbit hole - you'll often find me down there too! Having been raised in the UK and spent many family vacations at naturist resorts around Europe, moving to the US was something of a culture shock when it came to the general population's view of nudism. I love the “This video contains content appropriate for Americans over the age of 18 and Czechs over the age of 4.” reference as it sums up the cultural attitude to nudity perfectly as it clearly implies exposure to nudity is an "adults only" thing. Whilst we have enjoyed many great naturist venues in North America, there have also been a few that allege to be "family-oriented" but are clearly not and we regretted ever passing through the gates. We look forward to exploring New Zealand's naturist offerings during our first visit ... starting next week!
We continue to struggle with the juxtaposition of culture gun ownership and use here in the US versus the apparent calamity created by an errant female nipple. Janet Jackson "accidentally" flashes a nipple at the Super Bowl and the nation melts down. No weekend goes by without, it seems, a mass shooting and it barely gets a mention in the news. Go figure. Gun legislation changes seem very difficult to amend yet states (eg. Wisconsin) are looking to tighten anti-nudity legislation. We have a long way to go.
Many Americans own guns. In some states, a large majority of households have guns. A fair number of people own several guns. I grew up surrounded by guns.
If you could replace "own guns" with "are nudists," the 2nd amendment would be written to protect one's right to be naked and gun ownership would be almost nonexistent. Instead, the reverse is true. The amount of protection a perceived right receives depends on the number of people exercising it.
Unfortunately we're heading north west from Matamata - to Karekare Beach then Auckland Outdoor Naturist Club. However, nowhere is very far in NZ so you never know. Any recommendations for good naturist options (not resorts / clubs - we already have them on the itinerary) would be much appreciated! Thanks.
We're there for just over 5 weeks arriving on Jan 3. We have stays arranged at Nelson SC, Wellington NC and Auckland Outdoor NC but would also like to do some wild naturism. As we will have a motorhome, we're hoping to find some remote places to strip off. Cheers.
Don’t think your opinions on American perspectives on nudity is overly critical at all more realistic. However I do wish we were more pragmatic in our approach and recognize that social context matters. What works in the UK may not work in the US and so on. There are no quick fixes in the US mostly because I think we lost our way many years ago by assuming things would stay the same if we just kept our head down and didn’t bother anyone. In hind sight that was short sighted and no amount of wringing of wrists can change that. We need a new vision that takes into account the current social context just like Descamps and Baxandall did when they impacted the naturist landscape before.
Saw the video. It just confirms again that the society where in we live will have different views not only about the nakedness but in all aspects of the life.
Jennifer grew up in a gymnophobic family in a gymnophobic culture. Yet somehow she retained enough open mindedness to cope with other people's nudity. She overcame her culture through exposure therapy. She did not become a nudist herself. That is fine.
We are not going to expand the nudist population a great deal by direct recruitment, though anything is better than nothing. What we need to do is build tolerance and the acceptance in textile culture for nudism. You do this through acclimatization. The more nudity you encounter in nonsexual, nonthreatening settings, the less shock value there is
A proxy isn't the thing itself. It is a symbol of something else, something it may not even be connected to. Humans tend to fight for or against symbols and not realities.
The people who most strongly oppose nudity may be offended by seeing it but on a deeper level, they don't want society to be one where social nudity is tolerated in any way because of what nudity stands proxy for - a whole raft of unwelcome social changes.
Yes, Youtube does indeed betray its American foundation by its sad attitudes towards naked humans. Our own Hauraki Naturally channel at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9ESV85CwF9HFSs3TOOp38w has presented a challenge for us to operate, Even some videos that we have gone to great lengths to censor with appropriate "coverings" have been compulsorily made R18. I so love Jennifer Preston's introductory statement, “This video contains content appropriate for Americans over the age of 18 and Czechs over the age of 4.” I am so tempted to plagiarize it for our channel!
But you are quite right, Steve. It's a little unfair to pick on Americans as though they are the only ones sufferring from this excessive prudishness. We have our fair share of prudes here in New Zealand as well, despite our laws beiong silent on the issue of public nakedness. And naturists are quite diverse in their attitudes towards protecting the sensitivities of the public. Some go to extreme measures to avoid upsetting the public, while others recognise that taking offence is a personal choice and not the responsibility of the naked person. Let's face it - nobody ever died from being offended. "Sticks and stones may break my bones" is still valid, isn't it? Your closing quote is perfect: “Sure, some people might believe they are offended by nude bathers, but, if you never encounter anything that offends you in your community, you are not living in a free society.”
I sometimes think the attitude towards naked bodies between cultures is strange but it proves just what societal indoctrination can do. My situation is unusual in that I grew up in a prudish
English culture ( it's possible that's changed a bit now) but in an anglo/German family where my grandparents were ardent FKK members. This lead to all sorts of Juxtapositions and challenges as a child. Ok I still fail to see how a simple naked body can possibly be wrong anywhere, and I mean anywhere, but I do comply with some societal norms to protect the internal processing of the sensitive or the perverted.
You might like this:
https://youtu.be/B5_1eiLzXDY
Thanks. An interesting watch.
I can totally relate to the rabbit hole - you'll often find me down there too! Having been raised in the UK and spent many family vacations at naturist resorts around Europe, moving to the US was something of a culture shock when it came to the general population's view of nudism. I love the “This video contains content appropriate for Americans over the age of 18 and Czechs over the age of 4.” reference as it sums up the cultural attitude to nudity perfectly as it clearly implies exposure to nudity is an "adults only" thing. Whilst we have enjoyed many great naturist venues in North America, there have also been a few that allege to be "family-oriented" but are clearly not and we regretted ever passing through the gates. We look forward to exploring New Zealand's naturist offerings during our first visit ... starting next week!
We continue to struggle with the juxtaposition of culture gun ownership and use here in the US versus the apparent calamity created by an errant female nipple. Janet Jackson "accidentally" flashes a nipple at the Super Bowl and the nation melts down. No weekend goes by without, it seems, a mass shooting and it barely gets a mention in the news. Go figure. Gun legislation changes seem very difficult to amend yet states (eg. Wisconsin) are looking to tighten anti-nudity legislation. We have a long way to go.
Many Americans own guns. In some states, a large majority of households have guns. A fair number of people own several guns. I grew up surrounded by guns.
If you could replace "own guns" with "are nudists," the 2nd amendment would be written to protect one's right to be naked and gun ownership would be almost nonexistent. Instead, the reverse is true. The amount of protection a perceived right receives depends on the number of people exercising it.
I hope you enjoy your time in New Zealand. If you make it to Tauranga, I'd be happy to buy you a coffee and say hello.
Unfortunately we're heading north west from Matamata - to Karekare Beach then Auckland Outdoor Naturist Club. However, nowhere is very far in NZ so you never know. Any recommendations for good naturist options (not resorts / clubs - we already have them on the itinerary) would be much appreciated! Thanks.
Pretty much any secluded beach or park is a naturist opportunity. How long are you staying in NZ?
We're there for just over 5 weeks arriving on Jan 3. We have stays arranged at Nelson SC, Wellington NC and Auckland Outdoor NC but would also like to do some wild naturism. As we will have a motorhome, we're hoping to find some remote places to strip off. Cheers.
With a motorhome, there will be many opportunities. People at the clubs you are visiting will know the better spots. Enjoy your stay.
Don’t think your opinions on American perspectives on nudity is overly critical at all more realistic. However I do wish we were more pragmatic in our approach and recognize that social context matters. What works in the UK may not work in the US and so on. There are no quick fixes in the US mostly because I think we lost our way many years ago by assuming things would stay the same if we just kept our head down and didn’t bother anyone. In hind sight that was short sighted and no amount of wringing of wrists can change that. We need a new vision that takes into account the current social context just like Descamps and Baxandall did when they impacted the naturist landscape before.
Saw the video. It just confirms again that the society where in we live will have different views not only about the nakedness but in all aspects of the life.
Jennifer grew up in a gymnophobic family in a gymnophobic culture. Yet somehow she retained enough open mindedness to cope with other people's nudity. She overcame her culture through exposure therapy. She did not become a nudist herself. That is fine.
We are not going to expand the nudist population a great deal by direct recruitment, though anything is better than nothing. What we need to do is build tolerance and the acceptance in textile culture for nudism. You do this through acclimatization. The more nudity you encounter in nonsexual, nonthreatening settings, the less shock value there is
A proxy isn't the thing itself. It is a symbol of something else, something it may not even be connected to. Humans tend to fight for or against symbols and not realities.
The people who most strongly oppose nudity may be offended by seeing it but on a deeper level, they don't want society to be one where social nudity is tolerated in any way because of what nudity stands proxy for - a whole raft of unwelcome social changes.
Yes, Youtube does indeed betray its American foundation by its sad attitudes towards naked humans. Our own Hauraki Naturally channel at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9ESV85CwF9HFSs3TOOp38w has presented a challenge for us to operate, Even some videos that we have gone to great lengths to censor with appropriate "coverings" have been compulsorily made R18. I so love Jennifer Preston's introductory statement, “This video contains content appropriate for Americans over the age of 18 and Czechs over the age of 4.” I am so tempted to plagiarize it for our channel!
But you are quite right, Steve. It's a little unfair to pick on Americans as though they are the only ones sufferring from this excessive prudishness. We have our fair share of prudes here in New Zealand as well, despite our laws beiong silent on the issue of public nakedness. And naturists are quite diverse in their attitudes towards protecting the sensitivities of the public. Some go to extreme measures to avoid upsetting the public, while others recognise that taking offence is a personal choice and not the responsibility of the naked person. Let's face it - nobody ever died from being offended. "Sticks and stones may break my bones" is still valid, isn't it? Your closing quote is perfect: “Sure, some people might believe they are offended by nude bathers, but, if you never encounter anything that offends you in your community, you are not living in a free society.”
I had to chuckle about this, but it did point out some major differences.
I sometimes think the attitude towards naked bodies between cultures is strange but it proves just what societal indoctrination can do. My situation is unusual in that I grew up in a prudish
English culture ( it's possible that's changed a bit now) but in an anglo/German family where my grandparents were ardent FKK members. This lead to all sorts of Juxtapositions and challenges as a child. Ok I still fail to see how a simple naked body can possibly be wrong anywhere, and I mean anywhere, but I do comply with some societal norms to protect the internal processing of the sensitive or the perverted.